Dawson Palmer: Learning from Pressure and First Results

Hey guys, Welcome to Series Two, episode six of the Journey podcast. This is going to be a little bit of a different one, I'm trying to now that we got through some of the like basic introductory things that have to do with learning how to set goals and build a practice plan and, and some of the neurology of practicing and learning I'm trying to use this month and series to kind of bring different perspectives in from students of mine that have gone through this transitionary period of learning and changing your game. So that for those of you who are trying to follow along with the podcast and do the things that we talked about to improve your game and follow your plan and accomplish your goals, you you are able to hear from people on the other side of that experience who have been there and done that. And so I did that with a good friend and student of mine, Curtis Dunbar for that three part series. And this is a really good conversation with a friend and student of mine named Dawson Palmer, who is really, really cool, awesome kid. And I think just brings a fantastic approach and Outlook not just on shooting but on life. And I think that listening to this episode, in this conversation that I had with him, you will pretty much until we get to the moments where I bring up his age, you're not going to realize that this kid is 16 years old, an incredibly mature individual and has a fantastic outlook on the game. Very positive outlook, very positive outlook on life. And it very much benefits his ability to compete and learn and, and complement his passion for the game. So just a little, like pre emptive setting the scene type thing. I shot with Dawson for the first time since I've been teaching him in a tournament in Texarkana at Rocky Creek outdoors, it was the architect's open, it was the same tournament that Curtis and I talked about in the episodes that we released. And Dawson had a what I would consider to be a mass massively important breakthrough moment in his shooting. Essentially what happened was, and we talked about this in the episode, but just to give you a little idea what happened was, the first day did not shoot very good in the prelim. Second day, which is the first day the main he shot a good score for for the main event, and was in contention to win. On Sunday, he experienced what everybody experiences when we shoot a really, really good score and kind of get outside of our own thoughts. And kind of lose presence of thought thinking about the potential outcome winning, we kind of tighten up start playing more defense as opposed to offense. And we just try to, in a sense, in a way protect the performance that we have potentially available to us. And it ends up turning into a horrendous round. And I was able to shoot with him during this. And I don't believe in coaching people through rounds. Because from my own personal experience, and from what I know about coaching, it's the failures in life that we learn the most from. And especially if we if I have a student who's 16 years old and isn't, is in a situation where you can potentially have a breakthrough performance or do really well when his class at a big tournament. You know, he's 16 years old. And a failure in that moment is not really going to do anything in the long run, especially knowing his commitment and passion for the game. So I was at the position where I was going to let him experience the round in whatever way that naturally developed. And about four stations into 14 station course he came to ask for just kind of like an opinion on what I thought was happening. And I gave him a very cryptic response. And knowing that if he thought about it analytically, he could understand what I was talking about. But if he didn't and kind of let himself stay in the in the emotional state that he was in and was not using a higher level of self awareness to assess that. It wouldn't really make a difference to what he was doing. And it was just one of them. One of one of those coaching moments where as a coach, your student does something that you're incredibly proud of. And I just thought it was one of the coolest things that could possibly happen and it was something that I wanted to capitalize off of both for him but also for everybody listening because I think it's something that number one is very very rare at any skill. In his skill level in the game, I mean, people who are professional competitors and in clay target shooting struggle with what happened to him that he successfully made it through. But also people in the beginning of their game, when they start to experience success, struggle with it, it's a very common thing to be able to, you know, feel pressure not know how to handle and let it ruin your round. And he was he was dancing on a fine line of either having that make his round turn into one that he would kind of want to forget about, or be able to capitalize off of it and have a valuable learning experience. And it went the second way, which I was very proud of. And obviously, I've mentioned to him in here that there's going to be other opportunities where things like this happen again, it's not going to go that way for him. But this is just something to pull as much information and data from as he can. And hopefully, by having this conversation on my podcast, all of you can pull that information and valuable learning experience from that, in this by listening to this conversation. So that way, the next opportunity that presents itself where you're dancing on that fine line, again, you have certain information that can help you make the correct decisions, again, to let it go your way. And so I had a little strategic plan here to where I did not want to talk to him at all about this round until I could do it on a recording a few days later. That way, all of this conversation is not like pre planned or a regurgitation of a conversation that we had earlier. The conversation that I have here with Dawson is the first time that we talked about this realm. It's a coaching moment for me and him. But it also can be a learning moment for anybody listening. So I really highly encourage all of you to listen to this whole interview. I think it's fantastic. And it's also really fun to listen to because he's a he's a hilarious kid, very intelligent, very bright, very self aware, and just has a great outlook on life. So I encourage anybody to, you know, to listen to this reach out if you have any questions. But I think that anybody and everybody listening to this episode is going to very intimately relate with the experience that we talked about. So

apart from that, we'll kind of get into it. I do want to mention, though, that the podcast is growing very quickly. And everything, every thing that I have built into the podcast is growing faster than I expected. Right now my shoot analysis sheet thing is on my on my website is so full of people submitting shoot analysis sheets that I've I broke the I broke the server that hosts all of this. So we've had over 20,000, I think I'm at 26,000 submissions on there, which is fantastic. I mean, there's probably it's kind of like the equivalent of maybe 1000 to 2000. People who have used it multiple times. Obviously, it's not that many people individually using a lot of you use it fairly regularly, which is awesome, because that's what it's intended for. But I'm in the process of getting that fixed. So if you've if you've submitted one and haven't got a response back yet from the automated software, it's just because it's completely full. And I'm going through talking to the people that host this program for me to upgrade my account and fix some things there. On top of that, the YouTube channel is growing very quickly. And it's opening up some opportunities for me to do more things on there. The way that YouTube works is you have to be like a YouTube partner in order to be able to do some other cool interactive stuff on your live videos. I've just gotten approved for that. And so I'll be incorporating more technology on there in order to be able to do live shooting analysis videos. So like taking videos that you guys submit, analyzing them on the podcast live talking about mechanics, doing some really cool stuff. So if you're listening here, I encourage you to head over to YouTube, search the Journey podcast on YouTube, you can go to it by just going to youtube.com forward slash then the at sign, then de Radulovich. And if you go there, that's the YouTube website and join me for my live podcasts every other Monday and every Wednesday. We get into some really cool stuff I have. I have guests on there all the time. I just had the dead pair podcast guys. I'm going to probably have Dr. Cola on there pretty soon. And the coolest thing about that is that it's not a recorded episode. It's live, you can participate and if you are subscribing to the YouTube channel and you're logged into YouTube as you're watching it, I'm reading all the comments live and interacting with the people watching it and I can answer your questions. I can go over the videos that you submit and it's a really value Build training tool. So I highly encourage you guys to join me on those things. It's a lot of fun, too. It's just an absolute blast, a little bit of just some like community updates. The app for the Journey podcast is finally going to be released pretty soon took way longer than I thought, but we're on track to be able to do it, it's going to be released for androids first, I have to do some tax things to allow the apple Podcast Network to allow me to release it on iOS devices first. And that's going to be up and running as soon as possible. I just have to rely on people, not myself to be able to get things done. So it doesn't always get done when I want it to get done. But basically, I have to get approved for some other weird stuff. So that way, I have to be basically a business organization. And initially, I'd submitted the app through an individual developer account as instead of a business. So working on that, so the app will be live, websites being updated. Podcast content is being released a lot. I apologize for releasing so many episodes last week, I just have a lot of content. And I am incredibly impatient. And if I have recorded content, I don't like to stretch it out over a week. So I released my episode with with Curtis, three part episode, all in one week, as opposed to stretching it out over a week. So over three weeks, so we did that way. But anyways, that's basically it. I would say that, other than that should be able to join me this Wednesday on YouTube for my live video, this should be a day where I'm doing a YouTube live tonight. It's March 20 Right now, but because I'm going to be driving to Houston to be teaching there for the next week, I'm not gonna be able to do the YouTube Live. So that's why I'm releasing this episode. So you should be able to join me Wednesday unless I have any Wi Fi issues in which case I will do it the first Monday that I get home from Houston, I will be staying on on the property at West Side. So they tend to have everything good and set up and ready to go there. So it should work. But cool. Thank you guys. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed the conversation. dosh Dawson is a is an awesome kid. And I think you can tell by the conversation that the two of us mutually respect each other a lot. And it's always good to have him on I'm going to have him on a lot more in the future. So enjoy the episode. Thanks for stopping by. For those of you who are joining me on the YouTube Live, I appreciate your time and your commitment to the podcast. And yeah, lastly, just follow the Journey podcast on social media. For the for the best updates, it's going to be easier when the app comes out when things have to change last minute for releasing content and stuff. But the easiest way to find information for when I'm releasing things is my own personal Instagram account, or by subscribing to the YouTube channel and signing up for the alerts so you know when I go live or when I release a new episode. Yeah. Cool. Well, let's get into this fun episode. It should be good. We will see you guys soon. Adios.

Okay, cool. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about, like, how you how old you were when you first started and, and like a little bit about how you got into shooting.

I started shooting in March of 2020 is when I got my first technical competition. That October I started shooting for age, thanks to one of your students who got me to shoot for H. And I mean, I enjoyed shooting for H it was fun. It's a good intro. Yeah. And it just kind of being out there and going to a practice every Thursday or whatever it was. But then COVID Hit Yeah. So they quit all four h stuff. So I was like man, but luckily that was one Lance key and the guy who runs Rock Creek get to Rocky Creek. And so I started I kind of met him and started talking to him. He introduced me to sporting clays. I started shooting sporting clubs. So you weren't doing you didn't know for a tour. He was really only Trav Oh, I didn't know that. And my dad was also really good friends with the guy that coach they started the high school team at Pleasant Grove. And so the other weekend? No, that's the positive growth coach. Now he Hisar graduated. He kind of got me he's like, alright, you need to go shoot a little for age because I was in eighth grade at the time. He's like you negotiate for age, get you kind of into it and then when you're refreshed And then you'll be fine. You'll be able to track with us everything. And then that's COVID hitter whatever that 2020. So probably that March I got that shotgun from our I got like a, it was a Beretta a 400 multitarget for my birthday. And then I met Lance. And then I think it was, I started just hanging out at the gun club and shooting and I mean, that was decent. But then I started shooting with Lance that August or September. And man that was basically every day Monday through Friday, don't go there after school. And I would really love to know how much I shot but there I mean, I shot 1000s of rounds with him. And I progress so fast from that August to the following shooting season, which for me was probably like March February. Yeah. I mean, I was like, I progressed fast. I mean, I shot that a 400 so much. I had screwed fallen out of it. I mean, I thought I was in a Melfa talking about how would you shoot? I mean, I was shooting like three flats. Yeah. And three flats for I was not as big as I am. That was pretty small. Yeah, that's a

lot. And people don't think about this, but like what you're doing that's so three flats is a flat and a half on each barrel over and under. But that's three flats somewhere for the shots out of a out of the semi. I think it's

hot. I mean, I would get to the point where I was I just couldn't pick the gun up. Yeah, like inlanta Belegarth. Shoot more, Shoot more. And I mean, that was a good thing for me cuz I mean, I got my barreled outward. It's progressed really fast, and everything and then I started shooting tournaments. Probably March of 21 is when I first started shooting turns first ever tournament Texas gun range shoot. And that was when I had my first got my Craig off. Me I start really good. I was probably a 75% 80% shooter. Yeah, I've probably been shooting that's probably about a year shooting in I mean, I was good. And I just my scores kept going up and then I kind of plateaued about 2022 I kind of plateau. And then I was kind of just kind of get a little frustrated. And then Gary old told me about you. So I started shooting with you. And then that's when I started progressing really fast.

Yeah, and, and so, will this go back a little bit to the to the a 400 thing because my first gun was a 20 gauge. They didn't have a 400 is when I first started it was a 390 and I was the same way like I burned that thing to the ground. That gun and then my very next gun, which was a 391 Do you know have you ever heard of a teknis? I think I have Yeah, yeah, it was like a little. I thought it was a coolest looking gun. At the time. It was a 391 technics 12 gauges, my first 12 gauge and look it up on your phone. Do you have your phone with you? It's called a Beretta 391 and then put in Te KNEY s, but then do field model or instead of field model, type in green. Virta 391 t k in one and E Y. S. And then green

Oh, that's cool. Man. I remember that one that I think I was. I was probably nine. And when I got that gun, and the I just thought it was so cool. Then so you want to know what the next one that I wanted was? I like trying to get my dad to get me this so bad. It was it's called a look this one up. I guarantee you've never seen this gun before. It's called a it's a Beretta. You G B 2500 XL. I think it's x and then C E ll

you ever seen? Oh, I've seen though. Yeah, it's a break open automatic.

I've seen those before. Yeah,

I think that was what made you want this. I just thought it was the coolest. I mean, you know, I like to be weird. Yeah, but it's still make the like, no, they don't make that that did not that gun did not do very well.

So what are we talking about? ballistically like with the breakover

so the weird thing about that gun is it objects down? Objects out the side. Yeah, you when you load the gun, the shell sits on the outside there so you can see the unspent cartridge on the outside of the gun. Then when you shoot it pushes it into the gun and then in the jacks, the second the spent cartridge straight down into the ground. It's pretty cool I mean if you think about it like for trap shooters

oh my gosh yeah, that's the only time we were seeing this girl was a guy that was shooting for trap. Yeah, it was. I saw that trap model with the ratio. That's what my gun was a four than a 400 multitarget was yeah trap guns I had a freaking huge race rib on it. Yeah kick off pad which not a big fan of the kickoff move here round. Yeah, that's bad. Kickoff pad adjustable comb, man. Every screw came out of that gun. It was bad. Superboy everything

thankfully, like my dad did not by me the UG five d GB 2500. But I think you probably knew how terrible it was. I mean, I think it's cool. I would still buy it. There are two guns I think are cool that I want. It's just for fun. Is that gun? And then it's called a Alutiiq space gun. have ever heard of this? Yes. Yeah. The LGU T IC space gun. It looks like it looks like it's from like, what's that one movie with Ben Stiller. Oh gosh. How am I I'm blind. I'm having a mind fart now but it looks like a crazy guy that I want. Just because they're crazy. Weird guns. I want the limited space guns are really expensive, though. I

think the Beretta ug, whatever is pretty expensive, though. I don't

think I think that's I don't know what the price on that is. But um, yeah, so that technique is that I had, I don't know if it's techniques or techniques. I still have all my guns ever shot. But that gun probably has. I bet you that has a quarter of a million rounds through it.

Geez. Yeah. I know. I know for sure. Because I got rid of I sold that a 400 multitarget. Because all the screws and stuff came out of it. I sold it. And then I got the crack off. And I know for sure. I've shot it. I shot 30,000 rounds out of it. Over 30,000 rounds out of it this year. That shot my internal 23 No and 22 Because I got my palette last February. And I shot to that palette like I got think I got done with that palette in August or September. And I think I'm probably shot a couple of 1000 over that before I got the palette.

Yeah, I think that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's

a good it's been a good gun. It's a little click Yeah, it's got the click and click the audible click. You can hear me on my second shot. I'll let it go a little bit for Audible Clang, click bang. Yeah, it's almost like a reverse trigger. It's like click bang, click bang.

We were shooting with you at the architects Curtis Knight. I've never noticed that for some reason. But Curtis noticed that while we were shooting, and he was like, what does he have a release trigger? I was like, unless he changed

it. No. Yeah, so confused. It's all it's very loud.

I don't know how I never don't like it though. Can you hear it when you should

know? Yeah, I don't think I can hear it when I'm not in competition. But I guess I just don't I just like it just gets it out. Yeah. That's so focused on that bird.

I mean, you know how it is? Yeah. It was a trick question. And you pass Okay, so, um, talk to me a little bit about I know this is going to be a hard question to answer because it's really open ended and I help you guide through it. But talk to me a little bit about like, as you've been going to tournaments, your approach to learning how to compete different not talking about learning how to shoot, but learning how to compete aspect of what you're doing, like the the total mental approach to how you're you are thinking yourself through around in tournament like, what has changed and what as you What have you learned over the past like a year?

I think the thing that has changed the most is probably my nerves. As far as you know, that first tournament first couple tournaments, you get the jitters? Yeah. Sitting there shaking. Yeah. I can't get that out of my system. And I mean, I'm still not really good. I mean, I'm good at reading targets, I can retarget to them to shoot a 90. But I mean, I've learned a lot more as far as right now. I'm trying to figure out more how to read targets based off of my emotions before the shot. So a good example this is one of the stations that that last tournament the architects I was issued a different way in then I asked you in your you already shot it and you shot it backwards from how I was gonna shoot it. And I asked you why. And you said because the way that I shot it made me feel less amped. So I was like, You know what, I'm down this far. I don't really care. I'm going to shoot the weather Saturday or Sunday. Sunday. That was when I was done. intent towards Yeah. But I was like, Alright, I'm down this far. Let's go ahead and shoot it. And so I shot it backwards in that really I was like, Man, that did feel a lot better because I shoot the first verse in slow transition down, down down and I was breaking it like we were breaking it like a foot off the ground. Yeah. And you learn to pair from the right human. Yes, yeah. And you think that would make you super like you'd be trying to go super super fast down to the second bird and breaking because you're worried about and it really wasn't. And I went back because he hadn't changed the target. So I went back and shot it the other day and I shot at the whale was interviewed. And it just it felt so much worse. Yeah, I mean, that way the we shot it felt so much better. And it felt like I had so much more control. Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy in that. I've been working on that more now. As far as not just reading the birds, but reading how I'm gonna feel when I shoot the bird. Yeah, like how's this target gonna make me feel and that's more I don't have that problem as much. I'm big targets. Yeah, like if you give me a far if you give me an ATR crosser. I can get that all day. Yeah, it's a little close to if your rabbits quartering away cornering, left, right birds, that stuff really messes with me?

Do you know why? It's because it's kind of easy. No, think about it a lot. So that's the reason why a lot of people think, but the reason why. So I mean, you're talking about the amp, the emotional feeling of being amped. The reason why close or certain closer guards do that, you know, like you won't have, you probably won't have that feeling on A Closer bird that's just like a straight incoming bird, you know, something that looks really, really slow to you is not going to be that way. But when you have stuff that's close, let's say you have a 15 mile per hour target, that is 15 yards away. Or a 55 Zero mile per hour target that's 80 yards away, that 15 mile per hour target that's only 15 yards away, is going to be there's going to cover your visual field, way faster than that for the amount of per hour ADR bird because of the of just the ratio of distance between how you're seeing it. And so we don't if we're not paying attention to what's happening, we don't see the bird in like, you don't have the ability to radar, the speed of the bird, you know, like, Oh, that one's 15 miles. And what we do is we look at how fast it moves across our vision. That's how we interpret it. And so when we see those close birds like a quarter and bird with the trout right next to Harlan, and you know, like you see that cover two dimensional space so fast that you get amped because you think you have to move that fast, too. But when you have a full spring, Bert like the birds we were shooting yesterday. Both of those traps were full spring. Yeah, and that but that one on the left up on the mountain that left to right crosser that was full Springboro. But it never looked fast. That never was going 90 miles per hour. Not like off you like that off the arm. It was going at eight miles per hour.

It didn't mean it was this far just looked at but you take that right hand and bird that we had full spring. I mean, that thing was fast. Look fast, because closer. Yes.

But think about if you had that same trap half the distance away.

Oh my gosh, like is going 200 miles an hour? Either of these bullet going across? Yes.

And that's what happens is that, you know, we end up moving so fast. And then quick movement when it's unnecessary is hard to control. Yes. And because generally quick movement when it's unnecessary is is like a intuitive response in a filter of bad movement. And that means it's reactionary. And so then it's like reactionary intuitive movement, because you're seeing the bird wrong and interpreting it wrong. always ends up happening in the hands. So think about that second bird yesterday, we were coming down, it transitioned to it that it was so hard not to use hands, both on the transition to the line and to connect with the bird. That's why it took so long

because what took half a flat yeah, here now is really really good bird.

So that's pretty cool. So what how do you feel like you go through the process of, of

like in a match? How do you go through the process of assessing how you will feel do? Do you like? Do you rehearse different ways to shoot it in your head and try to figure out how each one would feel and then pick one you like or what or how do you do? How do you do that?

I've kind of started just doing what the first First thing that like, if I will get that bird, or whatever is like the first way that I think I'm going to shoot it, because what I found was, the more I'm thinking about it in my head, like, if I'm the last person and I'm sitting there doing it, I start second guessing myself really bad. Like, I'll start really second guessing. So instead, I usually just follow it with my hands, and to try to get the speed down. Because even if, especially on true pairs, if I have a mystery, if I get that speed down, I know I can recover. Even if I misread the bird horribly, I know I can still recover and at least get the 50% That's all. That's all it matters.

You mean, like if you get if you can make it to where in your body? You feel the speed of the bird? Yes. Yeah.

As far as I mean, because even if I've got a good read, and that's a deadly combo, having a good read and being able to feel that bird out. But I mean, even if it's a mystery, like almost did on that one station, I think I still would have been able to cover Yeah, because I would have been able to match that target speed better.

So it was your plan initially on that bird on that pair to shoot it, like shoot both them on the way up,

I was gonna shoot the front bird and then transition to the back bird, which would have probably, I think I could have done it. But it would have been a little bit messier, because I would have been having to fight a bird that kept moving back and forth. And because I was I would have been way in front of that bird already. So I would have been having to fight that bird coming to me and then me trying to get in front of it and all this other stuff. Yeah. Instead of just shooting that backboard first and then making that slow transition down all the way down and breaking it like a foot before hit the ground.

Yeah, but yeah, and you know, honestly, that shooting it that that way was opposite of how I would normally shoot it like the way that you wanted to shoot it front back. If I was probably on a different day, I probably would have done it that way. But I was I needed to. I needed to not I needed to calm down.

Yeah, we're our spa was a little amped up a little amp. We were what

what have you ever gone into a with a backup for on the Saturday round? Nothing back up more. This I want to talk about Friday to Saturday. So tell me what, like. So I have purposefully not talked about any of this with you because I wanted to do it to where it doesn't feel like we're where we're regurgitating a conversation we've already had on this podcast. So because I want to use it as a really good learning experience for you where you were, which would be kind of cool that you could always go back and listen to, but also what's cool is or something that you did, you may think that the only valuable, or one of the most valuable days that you had was Sundays around. But every single day was really, really good. And even Friday. So tell me just just vocalize if you can handle it, sending it out to all the 1000s of people that are gonna listen, what did you see on Friday?

I shot a 56

How much fun did you have on Friday?

A lot of fun. Exactly. It was really fun.

It was a blast. And so talk to me about like what your assessment. So you get done shooting Friday, or even in the middle of the rounds. You had we were having some conversation another round. But like after you shot the round, what was going through your head about what happened? Like what was your assessment of like, okay, I should try to do this or I experienced this or this I don't have to worry about

I think I needed to calm down a little bit. As far as we were pretty. We were pretty amped up. We were shooting pretty it was pretty high intensity, but we had to be super amped up so because it was cloudy, cold. I mean it was gray skies. Cold, dreary day. Like I like a motionless day. Yeah, honestly, I mean, and then that segwayed in and I more found out like I'm more thought about it on Saturday after I'd shot a pretty good round. And Saturday was sunny blue skies. Birds chirping Yeah, I mean,

so what with what you know about like the stuff that human talks about what would you really think about I mean, I think

a lot of that around can be attributed to how I was my how I was how the environment affected me emotionally. Yeah, like I may have felt like I was super happy with everything because of the squad. But it just my brain just couldn't handle he couldn't stay happy when, I mean, he was so dreary outside. And I think, I mean, I was kind of having to fill out the squad because first time we ever we all ever shot together. So kind of having to feel that out and kind of having having to fill that out. And I mean, I hadn't shot in a while and shot a tournament I that's probably the first big tournament of the year really. And so I mean, I kind of knew I wasn't gonna do that good. Plus, haven't worked at the medications. Usually first day off the meds is the worst. Yeah. Because it's like you can't focus at all. You're all over the place. Yeah, you're hungry. I mean, your emotions are everywhere.

Do you notice when you stopped taking your ADHD meds that you not only didn't focus but the but you feel like you could sleep the whole day?

Yes. The first day is the worst. It's terrible. You're all over the place. Your emotions are like all over the place. You feel like you can't get anything done. You feel like you want to be really lazy. Yeah. Like I tried to work out. Because I haven't take my meds any this weekend. I tried to work out that Saturday. I mean, I felt like I just couldn't do anything. You're just lazy, no energy. And then Sunday felt fine. Usually day to day. Day two is pretty good. focus a little bit better day three. I mean, it's usually really, really good. Yeah. I mean, it's almost the point where it's like, I can tell that I need them a little bit. But I mean, as long as I'm in kind of a calm environment, yeah. Low dopamine. Yeah, I'm good.

Yeah. So people who have who have who are like, depends on what you want to call it. You could call it neuro divergent, you could call it ADHD, you could call it whatever it is. Neuro divergent is a more overarching thing that encompasses a lot of other stuff. But especially with ADHD people, because their brain is so hyperactive, they tend to be very, very empathetic, you know, that is Yeah. So they tend to be very empathetic. And they tend to be very, very hyper attentive to their surroundings. So on the podcast, I talk a lot about interceptive versus extra receptive, and Huberman talks a little about about that, which, you know, the difference between those two things. interoceptive is where basically your attention is on the way that you feel like your body, inside of your body, like, be like, if you are going to do meditation, and you are focusing on your breathing, or if you feel hungry, and you know, that's been interoceptive interceptive awareness, extra receptive is, you know, right now you're listening to me talk, you're being extra perceptive, or you're paying attention to the guitars, or whatever it is. So interceptive is internal awareness, extra sensitive, is external awareness. And people with ADHD tend to be very heavily on the extra receptive side of the scale because of how fast their brain is working. And we tend not to be very focused on ourselves, too. The problem with that is that there's another category of Have you ever heard, have you ever done any personality tests. So in, in one of the personality tests, there is this category called openness that measures you on a couple of different things, but one of them is, essentially how much you are influenced by your external environment. So people who are very low in this, like they could work in, they don't appreciate natural beauty, and they tend not to appreciate art. And they tend not to, like appreciate music that much, people who are very, very high in this tend to literally have their mood influenced by their surroundings. And, again, because people with ADHD are very, very hyper sensitive to their environment, they tend to be very high on the scale. Like, I am 99% in this, like in 99th percentile. So I am hugely influenced by the environment, like my surroundings. That's why you know, you made the you know, me, my personality and how like chaotic I am, and you're like, I can't believe that your house is this, like clean. Because if I want to be productive, that's why I made my minutes as a rental house for two years. But that's why I'm in my office like this. I want my guitar. I want it to look nice. I like green things I want because if my house was messy, and it was and if it was like boring. You know if I didn't have art in it if I didn't have those cool little weird things with the lights I would have a really I wouldn't be happy, you know, I would not be productive. And so the same type of thing happens when we're shooting. Where that you know, like Friday I definitely felt that too. It was just a weird weird the colors of the sky just made you They sucked energy out of you, you know. And and then and then it was really windy. Hard to focus hold yeah cold for you.

It was cold for you. I had the cab Kenny.

No, but I was making a joke because I'm from Ohio. But um, the so that was a crazy day and you shot you said 256. Yeah, I think I don't know. 56. Okay, so I want to bring this up. Because I don't know if I've ever talked about this on I may have on a podcast, I don't remember. But that was your first time shooting with me. And a tournament. Yeah. And the first time I ever shopped Wendell in a tournament. I was 1010 or 11. Which you can't come Don't compare the age. But I was a year and a half or two years into my shooting. So compare that and I shot with him at a tournament. I shot terrible. And I threw a fit on the course. So much. So I think I still think about this. I remember it like it was yesterday because I I hate myself so much for doing this. But I also have to excuse the fact that I was a bratty 10 year old kid. That was Yeah, I don't I don't know what was going through my mind. But there was a target. When I say I was shooting bad. I mean, like the exact same. I was averaging normally like right, probably like mid 80s. And I don't know what my score was. But I would say it was probably around in the 50s in this round. And there was a station where I went last pair last pair last pair and then I on the last stick on the last pair. I was pissed and I didn't have an over and under cuz I was you know shooting the semi. And so I shot the last pair Miss Miss I got so because I loaded another shell and I shot the bird a second time. And I think that I don't remember this. I think maybe my frustration in the fact that I handled that one. That way when I was young, maybe I'm might be misremembering it but I know nobody said anything. I think it's I mean, that's technically not legal. Yeah, I should have been disqualified. But um, the I remember immediately doing that. And I was just like, immediately so embarrassed. There's been two times in my career when I did something that was really, really embarrassed. And one was that and the other one was I don't know how old I was. Maybe I was like, Maybe I was probably about a year younger than you. And I was at a shoot and in Wisconsin. And I think I told you this story where I was shooting feed tests, I was shooting so bad and zero to peg on the feed test. And I threw I got pissed and I threw my shells out in front of the thing. And this was at a major tournament. It was at a regional champion. No, they didn't have regional spec than anything. But maybe a zone shoot or some some big shoot, I don't know. And there was a whole rotation waiting to shoot in there watching me. And the the referee, after I threw those, he was like, sir, I'm gonna have to ask you to go pick those up. And I'm colorblind. And at the time I was shooting, I don't think they were Winchesters. But they were red shells. I don't know what they were. And I couldn't see them in the grass. And I held up a whole rotation being a dumbass. And I had to walking like 20 yards in front of the layout trying to find the two shells right through because I was you know, so Matt. And, but those are the two things but anyways, I wanted to bring that up because you shot equally as bad, but you handled it so well. And it was actually an enjoyable experience. And but the other thing was that your, your mindset for taking that into the next day is something I wanted to talk about because I think that's something a lot of people can learn from. You know, like most people, you're not a 56% shooter, you know, that was by far a terrible round.

That was the most fun 56

And, you know, like that's not you so that was that that had to have been like a little bit of a shock because I'm like, What did I do shoe?

Yeah, I just Like, I just saw that they told me I tried to fit you six. I was like, I don't even know if I like the most work or like only one

out right? And but see most people if they want you to fit these six on the prelim, the weekend would be horrendous. Yeah. And so I want to I want to talk to you a little bit about, I want to get some feedback for What? What? How much were you thinking about that? 56 when you started Saturday, I wasn't right. I don't think about the right. And how much did it so after you shot the 56 What was your reaction to that?

I mean, I've just cuz even talking to with Curtis about Curtis even said, he's like, you really gotta sacrifice one event. Just to get everything out, get the jitters out, figure the squad out. And I mean, I even knew I knew it was first day meds. Yeah. And not being on meds. I'm not going to shoot that good. Yeah, so it didn't hurt me that much. But I mean, I just didn't need to think about it, which I'm a pretty positive person. So I don't have a I think I would have probably shot, I probably would have been in a bad mood, if it would have been for the squat. Because the square is such a high energy squad. Which because I have me and Haley. And so And Haley rode with me on the car. And so we're blasting music on the car on the way to the stands. Super high energy Anthony child like we're getting pumped up. Right. And I mean, she's zero to station on one of them. Yeah, it was probably the best zero she'd ever shot. Because we're all pumping each other up. And everybody me you all just Curtis, we're all getting pumped up about that, even though we just I will I shot one. I hit one on that station, right. And she zeroed it right. And we were still getting pumped up. I mean, just having a squad like that. That is super high energy. But not just everybody high energy having a couple of high energy people that have ADHD and then having somebody like Curtis as a neutralizer.

to kind of get it is definitely doesn't know, but he definitely has ADHD. I mean, yeah,

but he's still at neutralizer. Yeah, he kind of was able to calm everybody down. Right before the shot was probably wiser. That's probably why I shot a one of the stations.

So when you after you shoot it for the sakes, like how much tea does that do you? If I were to say that? How much do you internalize that? Do you know what I mean by that?

Yeah, as far as internally like feeling that?

Yeah, like, how much did that into? Like, how much did it influence what you thought about yourself?

I mean, I really didn't care. Because I mean, we talked about it after I was like, Why do you think I shot that bad? You're like, well, just the way it was outside. You're being too careful. And I think I took that me being too careful into that Saturday round, which was like, Don't be careful. Shoot good. And that really translated Sunday. Yeah. Which we'll talk about the Sunday round. Yeah. Yes. That's that's a big one. That was cool. But just going into Saturday, as far as just don't be careful. Shoot, the way you normally shoot don't change anything. Yeah. And I mean, you told me kind of what I did wrong. I mean, even you didn't even shoot. I mean, you shot like at 90 something. Maybe? I don't remember. I don't know. But I mean, you shot 100 On Sunday, so you weren't really shooting that good either. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.

I mean, Haley shot a 60 something and I think Curtis did the same thing.

I don't know what Curtis I don't even know what I saw that.

Yeah, the I thought it was also a pretty good course. And when was kind of why Yeah,

that those targets were highly influenced by the wind because they didn't have enough spring tension to cut through the wind. Yeah. So I mean, it was some of those targets were rough. Yeah, with that wind. I thought that was a very cool course. I really was. It was a fun course was technical. Yeah. Which is not something I needed. On my first day. Not on meds. Yeah. Not seen something that technical. Yeah.

Yeah. The Yeah. So what So whether you know, or not the way that I answer your questions when we're in tournaments, is I don't necessarily always give you the right answer or give you an answer. They'll swing you one direction or the other. And so to you, what does it when I say you were being too careful. What does How do you stop being careful?

I mean, I don't really know now how I went because I don't want to expose too much about the second round or about this Sunday, right? Yeah, talking about it later. Yeah, I don't want to expose too much. That's fair. That's gonna be its own quest. That's Uh, I mean, I just just shoot it where I want to shoot it.

Yeah, shoot it.

Why don't you shoot it wherever I feel comfortable shooting. Don't shoot to work. I know I can hit it. I mean if I think if I think I can hit it off the arm here off the arm, like what you know where it feels most comfortable to shoot it for me?

When you can you can you consciously tell in the round in a shot when you're being careful? Or can you only tell after it?

I usually can only tell after it's four. Yeah, I really can only tell after it. And after I used to now I can tell after everything. Yeah, looking back at it. I can kind of tell now. What what do you

what do you feel? Because remember, this is part of this is a podcast, but it's also to help you because I want you to be able to know, I want you to be able to listen to it and be like, Oh yeah, that's fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. So how do you feel being careful? What is it, it doesn't have to make sense.

When I don't know, it just feel slow. When I'm not careful, like what feels slow, just my body my hair. Like everything feels like, I feel like I'm either going too fast, too obese, like, I'm going fast. But it's not the type of speed we need. It's being fat, it's best to get to that safe point.

Do you know, if you were to think between all the directions of movement that you can make it like in our up, down left, right? What movement feels fast, but it's not one that we need to go,

my left rise get real fast. But um, our rotation so like on,

on targets, on left to right targets, it gets real fast. Do you know why it feels that way?

Because of the way my hands and my body were not translating well do shooting?

And what in what direction? Would you think

that my non dominant directions what I felt like,

so like the

it felt like it felt like when I would shoot, when I would shoot left or right birds that felt better than when I would shoot right to left birds.

And make sense. Yeah, left or right for you feels worse or left for right. Feels better, better. For some left to right. Feels better. Yeah, to left. Yeah. Okay. So the reason why, and this is why it's so hard to be able to differentiate this and pull it out of the experiences because it gets blended in so well with all the movement, when you start to feel too fast, but too fast and a disconnected sense. The layer of movement that always comes into play is in and out, like the third dimension of movement, because moving the gun in and out, like forward and backward, not up and down or left and right, the forward and backward does nothing to connect to the bird, it doesn't change the placement of the point of impact. It just makes burn closer to the gun. And so when we start to lose control, and be careful, a lot of times what happens is actually the road, the fluidity of your movement in terms of rotation, and hands and posture locks up because we have anxiousness, like anticipatory anxiety. So like being nervous, because of what you're afraid is about to happen. And the when we get that anticipatory anxiety, the body kind of locks up some is, especially in the parts of of the body that make the movement that we want, because we're afraid to make the movement. Because of the fact we're afraid to get away from the target. So we want to keep everything close to the bird, we want the gun and the body and the target all close together so we can see all of it. And we don't even recognize that we're experiencing that. Because it's it's a totally influenced thing from your emotional state. But the the reason why we don't notice that that's happening is because in the moment of feeling that we are 100%, extra receptive, totally basing our awareness on the target, and the gap in the lead and how fast it looks and how far away the gun is. None of our attention is on our body. So we don't feel the bad movement at all. And so it's very, very hard to diagnose. That's why That's why pretty much nobody can unless you have somebody watching you or you film yourself. It's why so many times when you film yourself when you're trying to practice in Do unlearn a bad movie be like, Oh my gosh, I didn't know I was doing that we did a little bit of a yes, yes, that's fine Pete place. Exactly. And so what happens is that when we lock up from that anticipatory anxiety, then the only moment we have left to make is the in and out. And what that translates to is leaning and pushing. And for you as a right handed shooter, you said left to rights are easier.

Yeah, I felt like, and I think that's has to do with eyes,

and has to do with your feet. Yeah. So if you're standing as a right handed shooter, think about going left to right, you can't, it's harder to lean, we're always going to lean forward, we never lean back, we're going to lean forward and push into the shot, it's harder to push into the shot, if you're moving to the right, if you're moving to the left, you can push from your back foot to your front foot. That's why that happens. Yeah. And, and so but then the the chain of events that happened afterwards, is we lean forward, that brings the gun down. So we have to push the hands up to get back on the line at the target, then after we do that, it's going to count our back like you know, create a convex shape of our back. And then that's going to change the relationship of the gun in the eyes. And then when we change that point of impact relationship with the gun in the eyes, we consciously recognize it more because it looks different. I mean, look at it more instead of the bird, the bird looks faster, and then we move faster, and then we spasm and then it's all bad. Yeah. It's very, very bad. Okay, so you go from 56 on Friday to what did you shoot on Saturday? At seven? Yeah. And talk to me about if you were if you had to

voice over a video of you shooting on Friday and a video of us shooting on Saturday. And the commentary that you had to give was an it may be hard to do this now because it's a little bit longer, but do the best you can even if it's wrong, don't worry about it. The if you had to if you had to voice over how you experienced the round on Friday, and how you experience around on Saturday? What comments would you give? And if you would need me to ask that in another way. So you understand it, then just let me know.

I mean, I think Friday was just kind of said as far as emotions, or just not very good emotions. I mean, still being happy and everything, but just the environment, influence and stuff. Saturday environment made everything better happier. And I think that translated into a shooting a lot better. And second day, no meds, I know it was going to be better going into it. Like I knew it was it'd be a better day. I mean, warming up felt better. And I think I did better on my first couple stations on like I did, I did pretty good on those I don't know if are random. But I did pretty good. And I think that kind of translated. Because Friday, I just dug a hole. It's like I did, I did pretty good. And then I just did bad on a couple of stations and I just couldn't recover. And Saturday, every time I would do bad. If I've dropped one bird on a station, I will be able to recover. I think that was one of the biggest differences because I was able to recover more, which is good having that safety net of that good squad that we had. Yeah. But I mean, I feel like my eyes are working a lot better. Like it's see better. I didn't have wind going. Coming through my glasses. That was bad. That was bad. It's cost me three targets. I needed some blinders.

I mean, it was like I was going blind in the middle of a shot. It was bad.

I mean, and son was great on Saturday. I mean, everything was good. That round was amazing. But I mean, I definitely was still careful. I was still as I was still being as cautious on the way I shot that I was on Friday, but I was able to read the birds a lot better, it'd be more self aware and be able to break more targets because I was so more self aware. I mean, that was Friday was just I just sacrifice that I just had to sacrifice that. And that's I kind of learned that. And I learned that through Curtis too as far as like, You got to have one event, it's just gonna be bad. Especially when somebody has ADHD. It's you're gonna have one of it that's just bad. And you're set to accept that and I think I kind of just accepted that.

I think for me what I do is I don't that is true, because I can't It's not possible for me, unless I care so much about this tournament, that I can be focused in every single event throughout a whole week. Yeah, I mean, it's not the only time I've ever done it was the US Open in 2016. Because I'm, I made a promise to Windows wife who was in the hospital at the time that she wanted me to go, win and bring trophies back to her. And that gave me enough focus to do what I could do. And I want everything. Which is a real bummer that that's the case and I can't, I can't access that without something that powerful. Because of, you know, I always ask myself the question, and this is why this kind of conversation is good. Because I'm not sitting here saying that I have the answer for this, because I don't have the answer for it. And I've, I've worked my whole life to try to figure out how it's possible to how can i Is it possible for someone like me, or something like you to flip a switch in our brain? And focus on that for for the whole time, then? And the problem is? The answer is yes. But the caveat is that if we care. And so the other caveat is that we care about things that don't make sense. Yeah. You know, and, and that's so frustrating. And for people that are listening to this, that think that that ADHD is not real, they have no idea. No, they have no idea. It's a struggle. It's so hard. And you know, recently I don't know if you do have any social media. Yeah, you're smart. On on social media, for the past, like year and a half, we've kind of like since COVID, the big thing on social media has been like how ADHD is like, well, this great thing, and you can hyper focus and all these people that have ADHD are, are better. That is like the worst message to give people because it's not true. It's, it's horrendously difficult, it makes sure that throws your life upside down inside, you can't pay attention to things that you want to pay attention to. And so when you when you talk about competing, it's very, very interesting to create creativity, that you have to structure your thought process around in order to be able to focus that way. Like it's just very, very challenging. And the, anyways, talking about ADHD, I just went off a massive tangent. But, yeah, but on top of that, um, you know, taking that and putting it into your round. The, what I want to talk about a little bit is, so that's the difference between how you felt on Friday versus how you felt on Saturday, I would, I'm gonna give you my observation of the difference to the observation of the difference, what I observed in your body language. And your, it really mainly was your body language, there almost was barely a difference. But where you did do something differently, was that you were more comfortable being uncomfortable when you called pull. And you did one of two things a little bit better. You either trusted what you were doing or you didn't care. Yeah. And you just existed in that state a little bit better. But then also a subtle difference was the, the intensity of the focus of the squad was a little bit more ramped up on Friday on Saturday. And you kind of fed off that a little bit. And so, because you've never shot with me before. What I wanted to ask you was In by listening to your answers to the questions I've already given you, it kind of already gives me the answer this question, but I'm going to ask it so you recognize it? How much does the aura of the people that you're shooting with influence

your ability to shoot? Oh, it influences hugely, hugely as far as being able to come back from you. Not doing well on a station like v zero station. If you've got a good squad, you can recover from that. Yeah, if you don't have a good squad, it is hard to recover from that. Yeah. And I think that really translated in what I saw with Haley has I mean, she shot like a one on a station. And she was able to recover and end up shooting she ended up shooting her best score at the time, which was at 90 after after shooting like a zero on a station that lock on the station the day prior. Yeah, that's impressive. Build recover from something like that. Yeah. Cuz that really messes you up mentally.

Yeah. You're like, Why

did I miss? Yes, in bursts? And is

your so my question to you now is what happens when you're on a squad of people that negatively influence your ability to shoot? Well,

I mean, you you start second guessing yourself, you start, you start? I mean, nations.

I mean, like, what will you do? To not have a negative

squad? Yes. What I do to not be negative, not interact with my squad. Go sit in the can I haven't listened to music? In because I've been on squads that were pretty negative. Just like, stay in my own lane.

Did you happen to notice what you said in the answer to that? When you said on Friday, if I if I was not on that squad, I probably would have been not in a good mood. Yeah. Do you know why?

It's it's something that squad supplemented. As far as like, the energy of that squad supplemented the energy that I wasn't getting. Yeah, from the environment. Like, I think that that really played a big role in me not shooting 36 or whatever I was shooting. Yeah, so I wouldn't shot that bad. But,

and so. Um, well, did you did you notice a difference in my personality on Friday for Saturday?

Yes, you're way more focused on Saturday and Sunday than you were on Friday. You were equally as like you were joking around with all of us all three days. Yeah. Felt like you're a little bit more focused.

And what what did you notice a difference in was it like? Did it feel like it was segmented and when I was focused? I was focused the whole year segmented. When was I segmented Friday? No, no, I mean, when

your segment like you would get really focused, like beginning before you would shoot. And as soon as you get that shooting, then you would kind of go turn that switch off? Yeah, you turn it off? And what would I do? When I turned the focus switch off, and you just go talk and just goof around around a little bit? Yeah. So the reason why

I'm bringing that up is because because you are so much like me, and your personality and the way that you are easily influenceable by the your surroundings, not just the people. But like I don't mean like your decisions are influenceable, but your mood is influenceable by your surroundings. And so the people and the environment you will learn that you can flip that around and influence your environment. And that's what I was doing there. Where it there will always be somebody on any squad, you don't have to be a professional shooter. There will always be somebody on every squad that determines the mood. And there's as a competitor when you're trying to learn how to compete at the highest level. You there are two things you can do if you get on a squad, that's a bunch of column negative nancies. Just a bunch of sour, you know, buttheads basically, that don't, that for some reason, are doing a hobby for a lack of fun. If you get a squat of people like that on there, you have two choices, where you can do that where it's like, okay, I'm just not going to associate with the squat. I'm going to remove myself from the center. So I'm gonna go to the canyon, listen to music and the command to the problem is that's very, very isolating. Yeah, and the problem is that for you, that type of isolation will not allow you to focus. Like you're going to need inter social interaction for you is going to be stimulating, and you'll need some level of stimulation, to be able to flip that focus switch on and off. Now, you will notice certain days, where your, your ability to focus for around is like an inhuman level, where that can be around where you don't even say a single word the whole round other than pole. Yeah, and that's going to come every once in a while, and those are going to be the strangest days, you know, if you haven't had one yet, in a tournament, you will, and it just basically when everything is right, and you're very motivated, it's very, you know, the, the course is interesting, the, the typography is beautiful, the background is cool, there are targets you haven't seen before, this squad is good, you're in a new fun place, it's challenging targets, that you you see the depth of the technicality in the core set, and just straightforward, you know, days like that, where you also care about the tournament, you're gonna be like, locked in, not, you can, I said at my last podcast, I release, you can set a bomb off behind uni ball, no. But, um, so that's its own thing. But if you do that isolation thing, you will still feel the problem is you're going to be very empathetic, and you're going to still feel the emotion of the people around you, even if you just come out of your can, and go shoot and go back to the cannon, because that is going to influence them. Because they're gonna be like, well, he doesn't want to be social with us, and then it's going to influence their perception of you. And that's going to influence your perception of them, there's this back and forth social trading thing that happens. And so but because of who you are, and what your personality is, like, same thing with me. The, what you can do is, is be overly positive. If you are a person with like an outlier personality, people will pay attention to that, and they will respond to the way that you respond. And you can influence the personality of it, like, I have not shot on a squad, that was not fun to shoot on in seven years. But the difference is that I have, I just don't let it get that way. And so what ends up happening is like, every time I'm on a squat, if we're shooting terrible, or if there's somebody that's really, really not having fun, and you can flip that around on them by just overdoing, you know, Be positive, be funny joke around, be sociable, distract them, use your empathy, to pay attention to what they're paying attention to, and influence that. So I wanted that I wanted you to know that because Curtis is right about sometimes you're gonna have to sacrifice around. But as a, as a shooter and a competitor, as yourself and as a coach for me and the shooter and competitor, that that's an unacceptable answer for me. I don't want to give myself an excuse. I mean, I do. But I also don't want to give myself an excuse to say like, okay, which which one I'm going to bomb? Because you don't want to do that you want as a competitor every round to be very, very good. So you, the way that you do that is you pick what you define good as is it going to be performance? Or is it going to be mood? Is it going to be focused? Or is it going to be enjoyment? Is it going to be socialization? Or is it going to be focused, whatever you want. That's what you're going to, that's what you predetermine are bound to be so for me, because I really care about main events, and fee tasks. I'll pick side events so that I'm going to either be very, very interceptive during the round and pay attention to me so I can build a game plan for the main event. Or I will pick a little like 50 Get 50 targets 12 gauge course to actually like goof off and have fun, whatever it is, yeah, but just predetermine it and and build and learn to build a program around the way that you need to shoot for the things that you care about. And don't miss incorrectly identify every event that you go to something that you should care about because there might you know if you do care about every event at it, you know like maybe for the state shoot you're like I want to win my class in every event, well, then, then you'll probably be able to do that. But if you don't feel that way, you won't be able to unfortunately. Yeah, you know? Okay, so I do want to get into talking about your Sunday round. But before we do, I want to give you and it's off the cuff. So don't feel like you have to immediately answer on the spot. Like, if there's four minutes of dead silence in here, that's totally fine. But I want to give you the opportunity to, if there's any question that you have for me on the either something that you saw, I was doing something that you didn't understand about how I did something, not just mechanically, but like the way I was acting the way I was focusing or whatever it was, or something that you found about yourself that you want clarification or direction on, I'll give you the opportunity to ask now, before we get into talking about Sunday,

kind of talk about your round Sunday. Yeah, to ask questions.

Anything? Absolutely.

How did you stay in it that long? As far as because like you had a couple of bad moves, but you were able to recover from that? Yeah. How were you able to recover from those bad moves and still be able to hit the birds? Because like you had a couple of bad mounds? I noticed you had to correct on the second. Yeah. Second bird?

Yes. Yeah, like you. So you were noticing the sometimes unmounting the gun and rebound? Yes.

Yeah. Like how did you? How are you able to pull that off?

That's that's a very, very good question. It goes back to being intercepted versus extra receptive. When? If I do everything, right. The only way I can explain this, and I don't know if you've ever experienced this before, if you haven't, you will. And also, if you haven't yet, then don't feel bad, because I don't remember when I was able to think of it this way. And I may not even be able to explain how I experienced this well enough for you to understand what I'm talking about. But every once in a while when I do everything, right. Here's a good way of explaining it. I was I've been I normally never listened to my own podcasts. I just like I said, I posted ghosts. And I'm just I don't have the time to talk it all out for two hours and then listen to it for two hours and edit it for five hours. So I never listened to it. And the most recent ones, I would say so my one with Curtis and the one that I just released yesterday, I have listened to listen to that one that I released yesterday, last night before I fell asleep. And I didn't realize how freaking fast I talk. Like really fast. Sometimes I talk so fast. I'm like, holy cow. How did I say that so fast. And but in my head, I'm not hearing it that fast. It's like slow to me. And but that's on a podcast, when I am really into the topic, like right now for two people who have ADHD to be talking to each other. Like we're actually doing really,

really good. This is like really good to unmedicated. Exactly.

And the and so when I get into something I really really enjoy my level of intensity of focus blows up like it goes through the roof and I know that you same thing happens for you. And the same thing happens when I'm teaching I get like excited and amped up and and but normally, if I'm at home not doing something or whatever, I don't talk fast and I don't think fast because it's so hard to organize my thoughts. But when I'm shooting if I do everything right, I literally can process sensory data meaning like what I'm seeing what I'm hearing what I'm feeling everything I can process that so fast that it feels like I have minutes for the target to be in the air and I will have conversations with myself as like I remember three times in that round I actually had to correct the move before even shot the first target because that's why I wore a jacket the rest of the round because Is this our warm up like yeah, I was hot I would definitely was hot for the last half of the round especially the last like three stations. But because my A weight has been changing. And I've been trying to do more workouts for a little bit of my upper body, like I've gotten thicker up here. And it's changed where my gun is coming in, I definitely want to get it, I want to redo my stop. And and I just couldn't get the gun to feel right. And so I'd finish amount, and it would be like wrong. And, and I would be realistically, a foot or two before my planned breakpoint in the line. And I would have a whole conversation with myself in my head, like, it would really be like that didn't feel right, I can either dismount. I can dismount the gun and correct it. And but that's gonna make the shot happen right about four feet late. But the other thing I could do is I could shoot it this way. If I shoot it this way, I know that gun is wrong, it feels wrong on my shoulder, it feels like it's you know, canted a little bit. And, and because it's canted wrong, the pitch is also wrong. And that's giving me too much of a profile of the rib. I see too much rib right now. And so I know that if I want to hit this without adjusting my stock my mount, I need to change my posture and get my posture a little bit lower. So would it be easier right now if I bring my posture lower, or if I undo and redo my mouth, and I think I'll undo or redo my mouth and I do it. And that all happens in three feet of the line at the target going 50 miles per hour, I have no idea how I do it that fast. But that I monologue exactly what goes through my head. That's the process that happens in my head. And it happens that fast. And then and I observe all those things, I think about all the things I make the decision to move around like, okay, it sounds good. And then I just do it. So that's what I'm experiencing, when I'm making those changes. And the you throw on top of that, that you're sitting on a perfect score. And the normal experience for somebody would be to panic, like, Oh, crap, I did this wrong, this isn't gonna be good. And then you freak out. But going into understanding the neurology and the science. And honestly, the brain chemistry of everything that's happening there. The reason why I'm able to do that is because I'm doing all of the things correctly. Like I'm, I don't show it that you won't be able to see it that much in around because I do it like I go in into the golf cart or away because it's kind of loud, but I do very serious breathing exercises. And so I keep my blood oxygen level really high. I allow myself to get a to have adrenaline because it's good. I allow myself to be nervous, I want to be nervous. Like if I noticed that I don't care, I'll make myself think about things that aren't good to think about. So after the fifth station, after the second station on Sunday, I was like, I think I'm gonna shoot 100 Straight today. I actually I talked to Curtis on the morning, and I was like I'm going to I'm going to run the course today. And that was doing all of that to build pressure. And I also felt like I could because of what I learned Friday to Saturday, and then after Saturday's rounds, like I know what I need to do to be able to shoot a perfect round. And so I I needed to get past the awkwardness of feeling. I'm feeling cold in the gun because my gun never feels like my gun because I shoot 70 other guns, you know, during lessons and stuff. So I felt like if I could get past the first couple of stations, I'd be good. And and so um, if I like on the last station, walking to the last station, I walked to it. I started thinking like, I hope that everybody I wasn't thinking this on accident, I was choosing to think about this, I was thinking, Okay, where's the backup behind us, I kind of hope that everybody stays to watch I want the pressure of having everybody there for me to shoot the last station and possibly shoot 100 straight. And and because then I immediately started to think about like, well, that would really suck if I missed. And I started to imagine thinking about like, well, what would like Oh, I missed that last one. I was I was comparing and contrasting the motion of like running 100 Straight versus missing one on my last station in front of everybody. And I was like trying to live in that negative space to get myself nervous. And because I want the nervousness because I understand that the brain chemistry of nervousness and the adrenaline and the right oxygen levels, but then also I can flip it to being dopamine when I get in there and be comfortable in that position. I don't care what I think about in between stations because I'm also very interceptive on my body I understand that negative thoughts negatively influenced my physiology, so it's gonna make me breathe poorly. It's gonna make me not focus on what I'm doing. But if I if I exist in negative thoughts on autopilot, but because I can think I can exist Just the negative thoughts. Not on autopilot, I can control all the instruments, you know what I mean? Giving like a plane analogy. Yeah. So the. So basically what I do is just with all of the right combinations of all those neuro chemicals, you're you're eyes are working so well, that things look like they're in slow motion. And if they're working that well, and you're being that introspective, and you don't care about the shot, you don't care about the placement of the gun, and you're also at peace with whatever result the shot happens to be. It's not that I don't care if I miss. And it's also not that I really care if I miss, it's like, the best way I can explain it is that it's like a Buddhist monk. Okay, which is that they're just like, at peace with the world in the universe. It's not that you care or don't care, it's just that you are. And I really accept that about the result. When I'm shooting well, and so I have no panic of, well, I'm gonna miss this, the shots going to be bad, that's okay, whatever. I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing. And so though, it's basically that I'm eliminating anxiety by existing in it, but counter counteracting all the negative side effects of it. Because that, that blend of those two things, makes you be able to perceive things at a very heightened level. And for anybody that's ever been in an X car accident, or a really high adrenaline moment, you would know, you know, everything seems like in slow motion. So there's to give you a 20 minute answer to you're like, Yeah, that's good. Yeah. You know, you have any other questions? Anything? No? Later, um, okay, so what? Before talking about the round on Sunday? I want to after you shot Saturday, did you look at scores? Nope. Did you feel like you shot well? Yeah.

I figured I was a bit about sitting in like top three.

And did you? How about in the morning on Sunday? What were you thinking? What was your mood of morning of Sunday?

I mean, I was at a pretty good mood, because I knew I'd shot I mean, I'd recovered. And that was my whole deal. I was like, Man, I recovered from 56 on Friday, June 8, seven on Saturday, right? Yeah, that's awesome. I was like, even if I lose, I don't care. I'm gonna guess was impressive. Just experienced that. So I think I can do it with a good mood. Kind of had the squad figured out. This for squad dynamics, as far as their emotions, how we're all fed off of each other, and they kind of knew, like, okay, that's just gonna be another sheet. Like, I'd now know. Going into Friday, I didn't know I kind of how everything was gonna play out. First time shoot with you. First time. She was Curtis Haley. And to knew that going into Sunday, like I knew. After shooting Saturday, I kind of figured it all out. And then knowing all the information I found out Saturday. I felt really good. Going into Sunday as far as I can. I think I can do better. I think I could beat myself. My score from Saturday. Yeah. And it was just another good day. Yeah. Bluebird. Really good.

Yeah. The environment. Yeah. So compare your emotion. For the first 15 minutes leading up to the first station on Saturday, verse Sunday.

I think it was about this

bet the same about the same.

I think I felt about the same going into it. And I performed the same I'm pretty sure on the first station on both days, which I think I like dead lost it lost it loss. They lost that pair.

I think Saturday you ran the first day. I did run Saturday. I think Saturday you were on MMA. I think you were straight. The first three.

Maybe I don't remember.

I know you

was not on Sunday. Yes.

Your start for Saturday was much better than your start for Sunday. Yeah. No, I mean, like just specifically the very first station. But so you felt like kind of basically the same emotional state. Yeah, but the

same emotional state. Saturday that I did sit down Sunday and Saturday. I kind of felt the exact same was kind of amped up, excited ready for the round.

And So on the first station, what do you think? Don't worry about that make a noise. On the first station, what do you feel like? was? How do you feel like you either handle handled or did not handle properly? The way you were feeling on Sunday and Sunday.

I think I went into it feeling really good. And then I went dead lost, I lost, I lost that loss on it. And that kind of bummed me out a little bit. But I realized I was I'm like, Man, I'm being too careful.

So what what happened on? So your first tear, you go dead loss. What do you think? What do you think? Well,

it was a tough Peyer because we shot in the morning and the shadows were terrible, really bad shadows. So I've changed my kind of my whole point and stuff on it. As well, I shot a little different and I shot it differently each time. I knew I could get the second bird so I knew I could at least 50% on that station, but just making little minor adjustments. And when when I came out of that station, having it 50% asked you why and you're like that's a really tough bird. Because the shadows draw. It's a very deceiving bird. Because the way it looks is black belly target against a background that's got shadows a half lit up and have shadows it looks like it's far out. It's not far out. It's a face. Yeah. So I think that kind of influence different things.

Yeah, the so this was an example of me. Getting I was the first one to shoot too. Yeah, that didn't help. So my answer to you on that station was an example of what I was talking about where sometimes I'll give you an answer. That's not true. So I can influence you a little bit for I gave you that answer to in your head and make it not your fault. Yeah, does that make sense? It was my fault. It was your fault. But what I didn't want to do was was flip the perspective of your rock of the year round. After shooting a score that was so good on Saturday, I didn't want you to start the round off to be immediately thinking like I just made a big mistake and cost myself warbirds what I wanted you to think was I did everything that I needed to do it was just totally it was because of something external to me that I missed just a trickery. It's all about the trickery and manipulation, I'm an expert

be manipulated.

So because honestly, that's the way that you know, like the I always liked in around I'll do that a lot if I'm shooting with students. too. If I assess if I assess the situation, that you were emotionally going to be totally fine. And I would like if you're missing because of pure mechanics and not because of the headspace that you're in then I will tell you the mechanical reason but if the misses are happening because of bad mechanics caused by the emotional state that you're in then I don't want to tell you something negative about you in that moment. You know what I mean? Yeah, and because that will make it worse. But the so then Okay, so tell me about the next station

next station I think it was like an encounter in a right to left crosser report pair. I think it was was it a report where the amount of money it was a true pair it was to repair but I mean it was pretty easy to repair and I think I went like dead pair dead loss dead last and pay or something like that. Yeah. That I was being so slow and careful. Yeah, I just was not my eyes were not being fast. Yeah, I mean it's nine o'clock in the morning but my I was just not being my eyes were not moving fast at all my hands. Nothing was connecting, right. And that's what happened on station one. I just didn't know it because of your manipulation because I went back and shot that station again last Friday. And I like broke it off the arm was like breaking. I'm like, Man, I just I shot it just too careful and too slow in I think which we can get into a little bit later. Just if I wouldn't know what I knew when I started running stations or wasn't station five or six or five say five. I definitely would have ran that station. Like if I could have shot station five First, I probably would have done a shot on 90s have been on that round.

What did you learn on station five?

Station five is when I learned about being amped as far as the shots and I think me successfully trying out because I mean I was down 10 targets. And I knew I was down 10 targets. And I think I asked you something and you're like, either shoot 100 Or shoot a 38 Yeah, I was like, I'm either gonna go all and I'm going to shoot a 50 something today or shoot a 90 today. Yeah. So I kind of took that and used it as far as Hey, I just shot that station away that I didn't think I could shoot that station. And I just ran it. Yeah, so like, I can do anything now. And it felt good. Everything felt good. Yeah. So I kind of use that and built off that. As far as man I can break towards a foot from the ground. Yeah. And I kind of got that whole weekend got me in the train. Because really struggle and transitioning to a second bird and shooting me too fast. Same thing, Curtis does freaking get on the second version. But bam, yeah, way too fast and failing the birds out more on your second bird. And I figured that out on that seconds on that. Session Five because you shoot the first bird. And then that second bird dropping fast. So you got to feel it out a little bit more and then you break it. And when you see you crush it when you start crushing birds a foot from the ground. That's a lot that really gets you hyped. Oh, you get it after? That Ric Flair special. Yeah, exactly. That's like smelling salts man. It's just like it's just like, Oh, are you sure? Yeah. But I think knowing that really influenced how I shot the wrestler around. I mean, you talked about on your last podcast, I went down 10 targets. And I only missed two from station five. The station was 1410 10 stations. Yeah, I mean, I only missed two. The

so you you

in the two I missed one of them was it was a trap. It was a trap bird. And I just set up my breakpoint too far to the left. Yeah. So when I went up, I was to the left, because I set up too far to the left. Yeah. And then I don't remember on the other one.

I don't remember the other bird that you meant. Oh, either. I

think it was on the pond station. It might have been that it was a that was a weird bird because of the way it reflected across the water kind of was it was a little bit of

a duel this this evening. Was it may be on station 13 that you missed one. Yeah, I think it was yeah, that was a really hard stay. That was

very hard. Sadly, you know, you didn't obviously you didn't miss one. I think Curtis missed one. And I think Haley missed the one last day.

I think Haley missed all of the second one. All but one of the second one that was really hard stuff. Something like no, it was minus one. Yeah, I don't remember. But that was a very hard station.

I got miss my last bird on that.

I feel something like that. Yeah, the. So you came to me on the Fourth Station, after you shot that and missed your 10th target. And you you're like, man, what am I doing? I can't I don't know what I'm doing wrong. And I can't even feel my I can't even feel the way I'm moving. Yeah. And and so I told you that what I told you, which was a base, I said it wrong in the moment because it was like it was spur of the moment conversation I said, I either want you to just shoot. I was like I'm not, you know, basically, I either want you to shoot 100 Today, or 38, or whatever it was, what I what I should what I meant to say. And what I was thinking was, you know, basically, you're down 10 birds, you have 90, you're sitting on a 90, with 10 stations left, I either want you to shoot a 90, or I want you to shoot at 38 and, but 100 Meaning 100% And what did that mean to you?

I mean, I think that got me out of my mindset of being careful. Yeah. Because I mean, it just got me into a mindset where it's like, I'm I'm gonna do this thing. I gotta give 100% I mean, I was given it 100% But I'm gonna I'm just gonna go. I don't care what I shoot. I mean, I really care about that. I care about finishing strong on this round and being able to get myself out of this hole. Yeah, because this that round was a learning experience more than anything. Yeah, I could have shot a 38 on that, but I would have learned so much,

right? The Yeah, what I was funny, too. I knew that it would that that got through to you. Because when I said that to you, you you like you froze and then you know how like dogs tilt their head when you looked at me and then your head got sideways. And then it was like multiple seconds and then you're like, Oh, I like that and you turn around like super positive and you're like pumped to get to the next one. Yeah, I was like, oh, it's best trying to like the next, like seven stations. And and because what you completely understand what I was trying to say, and but I didn't want to if I told you it and the way other than that way would have not went through. Yeah. If I said stop being careful. Don't be defensive that doesn't get through like that. Yeah. Because what I wanted you to understand was that I would rather have you shoot a 38.

It'll care about my score. Yeah. Well, I

would, I would literally be more proud if you shot a 38 that day than a 75. Yeah. Because the 75 means you're playing defense. And the 38 means you're playing offense, and you just keep throwing interceptions. Yeah, you know what I mean? And you're throwing Hail Marys down the field every time because you ball and out, but it's just not going your way that day. And I would rather have around like that, then around where you're, you're just, you know, throwing three yard passes. And and, you know, like, third down just running up two or three yard. Yeah, you know, that's, that's the way the game that's not the way to play the game. Because you're gonna give up too many. And but that's the way that you were playing the game for the first forestation. And which is, which is the most? I mean, everybody does that what you did there. Two things the way you started that round. And so the way that you started that round, after having gone from a 56, on Friday to 87 or eight, whatever it was at 7686 86

to 8686 to 88.

Yeah. So going from a 56 to an 86 is a huge change. And he does a good round. Everybody on the squad has shot good. And then we go into Sunday kind of existing in that space of like, okay, first day was good. Let me make sure it's the same today. And the statement of non personifying emotions, they're in a in a sentence. But that let me make sure that it's the same today is what gets us that's, that gives us the 75 instead of the 90 or the 38. And everybody does that every person has done that multiple times. I continue to do that to this day. And it's crazy how hard it is to external to get outside of yourself and recognize that that's happening. And so. So you did what everybody does. So each you can't, you should not feel bad about it. The but what you did it I was so incredibly, I mean, like I on my way, I didn't want to tell you this, because I wanted to tell you it on a pot on the podcast, so that the episode would be better. Because if I said it for the second time, it wouldn't. I hate this chair. If I said it, it's so bad. If I said it for the second time on the podcast, it wouldn't, I don't think get through to you as much. But I'll show you if I can find them if they're not too far back. So you in my text messages to my parents and my girlfriend, about you on Sunday. And I I literally said something along the lines of like that was quite possibly one of the most impressive things I've ever seen. Because I literally said a cryptic five word sentence. Do you on purpose? I didn't want to give you the answer. I wanted you to either fail miserably, or pull it off. Because both of those options are a big learning experience. And right now you are so young, that you're 16 years old. And right. Yeah, yeah, six, I have to ask because you seem like you're 35 you're, you're so young, that who cares if you suck it up right now, if you have all these losses, where you're learning incredible amount about yourself, that's so much better than existing in mediocrity, or the bomb or blow it up. And as long as the bomb and the blowing it up, in a good way are something that you can analyze, access and learn from. And But what was so cool is that you you didn't have to ask me what I meant. You and you just you thought about it critically, because you're very much an analytical person. And and then you took your own meaning from it again, you didn't ask me what I mean. And then you apply it immediately without failing at the application of it, which for the first time to experience that to pull it off successfully when you consciously understand and make a decision to do it correctly is so hard. I don't think you understand how, how cool it was what you did. Because there will be times where we accidentally turn a bad round into a good round. And we don't really understand what it was that happened. But if the first time you're in that situation, and you're, you're leading, you shot, an awesome score the first day, and you go on the second day, and you start really tight, and you're, you're being cautious and careful, and you're shooting with the person that teaches you. And there's, there's like, there's, it was a fun squat, but there was also a lot of pressure on that squad. And if there wasn't, I would have not shot 100 straight. And so you're dealing with all of this, and then to not be told the answer, to understand what I mean by that sentence. And to consciously say, Okay, I'm just gonna stop being careful, you don't understand how hard just stopping being careful is, people can't do that. And now, don't expect that to happen all the time that way. But I, that is such a massive learning experience for you that I want you to make it to where you, you so intimately understand your own thoughts from that round, and your own emotions from that round and your own decisions from that round, that you can access that again. And it's not saying that the next time you're in a situation like that, it will be the same because you may be able to make the same decisions again and do the same stuff. But it won't get in the same result. Because there's all these other different influencing factors around you doing that. But but the so there's that now talk to me a little bit about, like, as you were halfway through, say the first four stations went that way, then you made that decision. At the end of the fourth, you started on the fifth, you run the fifth, talk to me about station 10, you're halfway through the rest of the course. Are you either down one or still straight? What were you? How were you dealing with the progression of from station to station to station and having this massive contrast of performance, but not allowing the contrast of performance and how good you were doing to pull you out of being present and cautious? What decisions were you making? What thoughts did you have?

And I think everything fell into place. As far as what I was trying to do on the first five stations, I was able to do after a random after you run a station. It's like you can do anything. Yeah, everything falls into place. It's just validation. Honestly, it's validation that, okay, I can do what I say I'm going to do my plan works. I can do what my plan is, because I just get the Edit hit 10 birds on the station. And I plan on hanging that many. Okay, I can do that. Yeah. And so like, there's no reason I should miss. Yes. And I think me flipping the script on that round validated. Everything I wanted to do on the first couple stations that I wasn't able to do, because of bad mechanics in different manipulation. I was able to do on station five through 14 or 13. whenever it was, yeah. And I think I had a lot of pressure on there. Because I mean, I was impressed. I mean, just my pressure to impress you and impress Curtis. Yeah. Because I mean, Curtis came down from Florida to Russia with me. And I felt really good. Because I could I could when I would turn around like Curtis was super happy. And super proud. Yeah. Because I mean, I flipped the script. And I can tell you we're proud. Yeah, even though you had a pre because you were I was trying

to give you nothing. i Yeah, even if you didn't, I mean, you really did good. Yeah, I was. I was literally I was literally trying to make it to where for the I don't know if you notice, but there's a few stations like the I think it was the fourth It was either the third or fourth station you did really really bad. It was the worst one.

Oh, yeah, the one where I got like, that was bad. That was bad.

It was bad. And you turned around and I had to avoid looking at you. So I couldn't because I didn't like looking at the sky. I like I walked into the station I looked left because not that I would not that I I'm like I was trying to avoid looking at you because I wanted you to figure it out. Yeah. And I did. Yeah, I know. You did. Yeah. And that's why I gave you the answer that I gave you when you asked me that question because I didn't want to give you the answer. I wanted to see if you could critically think through what I was what I meant.

Yeah. And I think that's going to really get to translate If that's really going to help me in the future,

you don't learn. You don't learn anything by being given answers. Oh, yeah. And you are analytical enough to where you problem solve until you have an answer. And that's why I was doing that because, because it really what I saw in after the, after Saturday, I was like that. That's a really, really, because how long how many years? Have you been competing? How many years you've been doing? NSCA shooting? Take this is my third season. Okay. So, um, and first season,

I started shooting NSA stuff like halfway through the first season,

and how many tournaments? I mean, in total overshot.

I think my lifetime rusher targets is like 4000 Maybe? Yeah, it's pretty. I don't have very many life. Like, I don't have any registered targets. Yeah, I mean, really? The I'm pretty new at it. Yeah. Very good. Yeah.

And yeah, I mean, you. I shoot, like barely at all. And the amount of an I shoot four to 6000 targets a year. registered. You have 4003 years? Yeah. looking it up? Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious. But, um, yeah, I saw the opportunity for the weekend to be very, very valuable to you. Because of going from 56 to an 86. The contrast of that performance, that's a really, really cool thing to experience, because you didn't

it's like that really annoying, but also very, very true statement about halftime targets are 7375 and target since 10. One of prior year is only 800. Yeah, so I guess that's my carry overs or whatever.

I don't know. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm the that knowingly, but accurately, old statement about have a memory like a goldfish or something that you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, we're news. Yeah. I mean, it's stupid, because it oversimplifies what it means. But sometimes oversimplification is good. That's why I sent you 238. Yeah, that was like the best

thing. I've been doing this long enough, the best manipulation you could ever.

Yeah, the, but that's what I was like, Oh, that was awesome that he went, you know, to be able to turn that around. And now we're sitting in a really good position contrasted by a really bad one. So it's going to over amplify the importance of the good one, which hopefully, I was hoping going into Sunday, you'd be nervous, because like, if I can be with you, when you experience that, that'd be very, very good, because then I can observe you doing that. And I can, afterwards we can dissect and talk about the decisions that you made, whether it was good or bad, maybe things that you don't know that you experienced that I observed that you experience, because I pay attention a lot to everybody, when I'm when I'm shooting with students. And, you know, literally, we were just talking about people with ADHD being very empathetic. I mean, if you're an empathetic person, but then also for a job every day, you use your empathy to read the body language of your student understand how and what they were thinking, you get you, you become very much in tune with being able to pay attention to this kind of stuff. Because, you know, have you have we had a moment yet we're in a lesson, you know, you take a shot or something. And I tell you, that, you know, you were thinking about XYZ, and you're like, how the hell does he know that? Have you ever? Yeah, I think we've had some Yeah, it's all that is, is because I can tell what you're thinking. Because I can tell you, your body's moving. And it's so subtle, that it's hard to most people don't even notice it. But um, that's my job to do that everyday and pay attention. And so it's very obvious to me. So I'm also very in tune with the in around the difference in your persona, which was cool that this happened prior to the switch in your body language happened before. You had evidence for yourself, that it should change. It was when you after you tilted your head and thought about what I said. And then you're like, oh, unlike that, that moment, immediately, your body language was different. You immediately became the person that just threw all the chips on the table and was like, I'm going all in Without giving evidence that that would be okay for you to do like, because you hadn't shot the next station yet to run one yet. And you didn't know that that approach would work, but you'd made the decision to make that approach and commit to it. And from that moment forward, it it looked like you were you were 100 straight with me. Yeah. And and, you know, like, you just by conscious choice decided to delete the consciousness. So after talking about that limit, do you have? Do you have any? Are there any undefined things for you from that round that you like, that you experienced, but don't quite understand yet? I mean,

I kind of figured of it because I've been thinking about it a lot. Before I kind of got a lot of the stuff figured out. And I think it's just take me shooting more. And I think this gives, I'm gonna be able to look back at this round, and compare it to all my rounds. Moving forward. Yeah. As far as, okay, I did this, I did this, I did this. I mean, I kind of started to understand stuff. And we've kind of started to work through different aspects of that rounds for fill in the second targets out more. Understanding how stuff makes me amped. That's something that I learned about during that round. Yeah. emotional states. Just different things

like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's so much more valuable to learn that in a match, because the impact of it is way No, yeah. You know, like, we can talk about it theoretically, in a lesson or in a conversation as much as we want. But until you experience it, it's, it's, it's still this theoretical thing that you can't grasp. But now you have an experienced understanding of what that is like, and how it influences your ability to move. You know, I mean, could you tell that when you shot that one pair on station five, that way, that you literally felt like you can move your body better? Oh, yeah. Isn't that why though? I do. Like, that's why Yeah, it was wild. Yeah. I mean, the contrast, I

think, if I would have shot that pair differently, I would have had a completely different route. I agree. Yeah, I would shut that first bar if I would have shot the front birth in the backyard with a different room.

Yes. And I noticed yesterday in our practice, you were without me, like guiding you. That much. You were you were experimenting with that? Yeah, it was with the feeling of how you would imagine you were and how that was influenced, like, man, it's changing the way I'm moving my hands or whatever it is, you know, my ankles and my posture and stuff? That's very, very good. It's very good that you let your mind explore those things and practice practices for yes. Yeah, that's very, very important. The was already two hours

or two hours. Yeah. Geez, I can't believe

I told you, I guess. Okay, so how about other than, maybe not necessarily undefined things. But now that we talked about your Sunday route? Anything else you want to add about it?

Okay. Not really. I think it was just, it was a good round for everybody.

Yeah. Do you? Do you have any questions? Or? Or how about, I'm gonna phrase it this way? What questions do you have? Not? Do you have any? I want you to have questions, even if you have to sit here and think about some about anything related to give me one question related to your performance, one question related to something you observed in me. And then one question that can be related to anything in practice or anything. How

do you think do you think the way I've been performing our practice translated as far as when when we shot a couple of weeks prior to that? Do you think a lot of what we implemented during those practices? Do you think I was using that during that tournament? Do you think I was implementing a lot of that during the tournament?

So like, your question is, am I seeing the mechanical changes that we put in place,

the mechanical and then this the process of reading the birds? Are you seeing those being implemented? 100 years of tournament? Yeah. And do you think it's benefiting me? The way it should be?

Yes, it's, it's, it's benefiting? Yes, it is. It's not fully nonconscious yet, which it shouldn't be. it'll take, you know a little bit longer for it to feel like you don't have to think about it anymore in your planning or in your setup. Or, you know, I can tell you're at the point now, where most of the time you don't think about it at all during the shot, like during the shot, you're not conscious on, which is good. And, yes, it's definitely benefiting you, except for certain times when I noticed that you're thinking if it's happening or not, that's when you get pulled out of your shop. Which also, that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing. And it's just when it becomes non conscious. And going back to that, episode three of series, one of the podcasts talked about central pattern generators, upper and lower motor neurons, when the control of your body completely converts to being done by the central pattern generators, the signals being sent out to the lower motor neurons. When that happens, then that's when it won't cost it won't hurt you, because you're wondering if it's helping you so to speak, because it you won't even think about it anymore. And so that's specifically talking about the process or your mechanical movements, in terms of your process. I, like you're in your, like the routine that you're running in the round. The what I liked, what I really liked to see was that every round was different for you. Which to me tells me for some people, when you see that you you can make the logical deduction that it's because they're not even thinking about what they're doing. But when, when I see your process changing in between stations, and from day to day, I can see the purpose behind the changes that you make. Which is good, because I like the fact that you're comfortable experimenting in around with the way that you're approaching the round. And you're comfortable using that as an as a scientific experiment when it counts. Because really, that's the only way that you're going to learn you can't test it. You can't test A A tournament routine and

just get to be in a tournament Yes, during that tournament mode. And the

problem is too many people are unwilling to give that up. Yeah. And so I there I noticed a few times when the choice that you would make to change in your process, whether that be how much you're putting into reading or how detailed your plan is, or how how much you're going in and out of being around the station and the targets verse isolating yourself, I noticed when you would make decisions to change based off of what was happening to your round, there were some times that the choices that you made hurt you and there were some times when they really really helped you. And then I noticed that when the choice that you made hurt you you quickly changed it to it. And then the next one may have hurt you again, but you didn't exist in those choices along for them to hurt you for a long period of time. And I mean you shot too good round so it's not going to really show and then Friday, I wouldn't even worry about that. Now I don't think about Yeah, yeah, the so yeah, I see you implementing them I see you experimenting with them for the purpose of trying to learn what works best for you because I can't give you the best answer for that because your mind is different. And your mind is going to be different every day that's the problem of having ping pong balls bouncing off the inside of your head every day. So I think is very very good. All right, next question. I mean,

how do you think do you think the squad dynamic influence do you? I

I think that

I'm trying to figure out a way to say this politically. Basically. I don't It's not possible for a squat influenced me good or bad because I set the tone for the squat. Like if I was very serious and didn't talk, neither would any of the anyway. So but can't but like squad chemistry is good. And that and that was good because it allowed everybody to feel comfortable doing that. And I just think that a squad like that is, you know, I mean, basically, I 100% would do at any tournament, I would shoot at that with that squat. Unfortunately, not every tournament, I get the choice. Freaking super squad. Yeah, super squad and the World Championships and stuff like that. But, um, which is good for the sport. Yeah, what and sit and, you know, make it to where you're on there soon. But, ya know, I thought it was a great squad. And, you know, the, the energy was good, the positivity of it was good. And the other thing that's good is that everybody there, here's the thing, that's, that is good. Everybody that was on that squad was there for the main purpose of a performance with a secondary follow up, that was equally as important to enjoy the round. And then probably as a third thing, what I did like is that everybody was willing to learn, you know, I mean, I take my approach to tournaments, is I don't go to a tournament to win, I go to a tournament for every day that I shoot to learn one thing. And, I mean, I really I don't, I don't care what my performance is, I care if I figured something out. And sometimes I'm figuring something out that I already figured out. But I figured it out in a different way. Or I experienced a different way. And, and so everybody had that mindset on that group. And that's very, very important. Because you, you build energy, from day to day today, you know, like you, you, but the squad as a whole gets better every day. And that's something that's not normal. You know, like 99% of people that go to a tournament. If on Saturday, if they shoot a good score Sunday, they're not going to look at I mean, not to call people out. But it's just, it's everybody, most of the people that were there we're in, are in the learning process of let's put it this way. Saturday, I shot 98. Second place was 97. Going into Sunday, I had a one bird lead, I finished Sunday with a 14 bird lead. The reason why I did that is because the person that shot one lower than me, didn't truly believe that they should have shot that score. They can, they can externalize that they think that they're that good. But the only reason why they didn't follow that up on Sunday was because that was an uncomfortable position for them to be in. This is a very comfortable position for me to be in. Yeah, and but here's the thing, the evidence shows that that's a comfortable position for them. Because they did it. If you did it, then that's you. And all and everybody goes through that process of you know, like having it be hard to follow up a good round Saturday with a with a better round Sunday. Everybody goes through that until you learn that the only reason you're there in the position to be able to follow up with a good round on Sunday is because that's how good you actually are. You don't shoot you don't ever shoot better than you're capable of shooting. You only ever shoot as good as you possibly know. And so Ronnie, if you're listening to this and you think that I just insulted you I actually just complimented you because what I'm saying is you should believe that you're good enough to do that twice because you are so and also don't feel bad because everybody I'll probably do it next weekend. Shoot awesome the first day and suck it up in the lab. But But yeah, so the whole squad took that approach with which builds momentum and that's really really good. Okay, last question about anything.

Oh, like I haven't you I haven't gotten Let's say that you're gonna say that for next podcast. Okay. That's already been long enough as is. Yeah. What

is we're at? Yeah. Now, right? Basically two minutes, five or two hours and five minutes. Okay, cool. Well, do you want to give a an outro? Or do you want me to do it?

You can do.

I'll do it in post. Okay. All right, cool. Well, it was a fun conversation. And thanks for sitting down and talking about it. This was your first your first ever podcast to be on. Right? Yeah. How do you think you did? You did 100%. Good. Great. It was it? Did you like? Is it hard to? Here's what helps when you're in a podcast the first time like it is a little nervous to be in you don't know how to act. And but if you can lock into the conversation with the person that you're in, you forget about the mics. Yeah. Yeah. Because really, it's not a conversation to other people. It's this kind of

conversation. Listening. Yes. Cool. Well, I

think that was a valuable conversation. And I think I appreciate you being on the podcast, because I think a lot of people can learn for that. And I think that it'll be it'll be valuable to you, but also to other people. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, let's go do something else. Let's go shoot.

Alright, guys, well, that was it. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Again, just a little reminder. Join YouTube. If you don't already have an account, sign up for YouTube. So you can come in in the YouTube lives. Follow the Journey podcast on YouTube. Join me every other Monday and every Wednesday on there for awesome interactive episodes. I can answer your questions and now do a video analysis. And other than that, thanks for your time. I hope you guys have a great week. Get your practice in and look to the live YouTube episode this coming Wednesday on the 22nd for the homework that I'll be assigning for you to do if you want to. I wish when I was in school, that homework was optional, like the homework that I assigned in my podcast would have been really nice. Anyways, cool. Thanks a lot, guys. Thanks for your time. Hope you enjoyed it.

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